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Matca - Pagina 5 - Forum Apicol | Apicultura de la pasiune la profesie.

Matca

Discutii despre diversele rase de albine din lume: avantaje si dezavantaje, care sunt mai potrivite pentru un anumit scop, experiente avute cu diverse rase sau hibrizi.
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irinel venczel
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Re: Matca

Mesajde irinel venczel » 24 Feb 2015, 18:49


cristi
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Re: Matca

Mesajde cristi » 24 Feb 2015, 19:31

Stiu ca nu trebuie inlocuita carpatina in fiecare an.dar prin inlocuire scazi riscul de roire.si o matca tanara oua mult mai mult.vroiam sa stiu cum sta buchfastul cu ponta pe 2,3-4 ani.

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Re: Matca

Mesajde cristi » 24 Feb 2015, 19:50

Alta problema legata de matci.anul acesta o sa fiu stramtorat de spatiu din diverse motive si din acest motiv vreau sa inmultesc cat mai mult bagand 2 matci in stup dandant de 12 rame pornind cu albina putina.stiu ca totusi se vor umple repede cutiile.in cazul in care se vor umple ma gandesc sa le pun gratie haneman si cat.intrebarea este care rasa de marci se preteaza mai bine la ceea ce vreau sa fac?2 matci de rasa diferita se suporta?
Ceea ce vreau sa fac nu este din lipsa de cutii.am 15 familii si pe langa cutiile acestor familii am in lucru vreo 50 de cutii cu cate 2 caturi 1/2.

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Radu Guțescu
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Re: Matca

Mesajde Radu Guțescu » 24 Feb 2015, 20:18

Cea mai greu de folosit impreuna cu alta rasa in aceeasi cutie este caucaziana, cele mai docile si maleabile din punctul acesta de vedere sunt Buckfast-ul si Ligustica in aceasta ordine.
“Exista ceva la albine care intotdeauna l-a captivat pe om. Extraordinarul lor simt al ordinii si al preciziei, abilitatea lor de a se adapta la orice sau oriunde, versatilitatea incredibila, acestea si multe alte caracteristici reprezinta o inepuizabila sursa de interes si incantare atat pentru apicultorul profesionist cu cei 2000 de stupi ai sai, dar si pentru cel amator cu cei cativa stupi ai sai din coltul gradinii“. - Karl Kehrle (Fratele Adam)

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Re: Matca

Mesajde Pierre » 04 Mar 2015, 10:03

As dori sa va prezint o mica problema pe care o am. Sper ca scriu in topicul corect, eu cel putin consider ca problema pe care o am se datoreaza
matcilor si daca tot se discuta despre matci am sa va explic mai jos ce problema am in stupina.
Cum am mai precizat in diferite postari pe forum sunt un apicultor la inceput de drum in aceasta frumoasa meserie doar 3 ani. Mi-am cumparat familiile de albine de la un apicultor batran care era si este specializat pe productia de roiuri. In momentul in care le-am achizitionat va spun sincer ca nu m-a interesat calitatea matcilor ci sanatatea si mai mult pretul.
Unchiul meu un apicultor cu peste 10 ani de experienta in acest domeniu a fost cu mine deci nu am fost de capul meu sa cumpar nu de alta dar nu as
fi stiut ce cumpar.
Am luat familiile de albine si m-am pus pe treaba cu grija si inmultirea lor dar am observat ca familiile de albine in plin cules roiesc.
Nu toate dar aproximativ jumatate din familiile de albine roiesc la cules exact cand ti-e lumea mai draga.
Bineinteles ca m-am documentat si l-am intrebat pe unchiul meu si nu numai pe el. Care ar putea fi cauzele?
Toate familiile au beneficiat de aceleasi tratamente, toate au spatiu, ba inca de multe ori le pun cat si nu apuca saracele sa aduca miere chiar
daca zona are potential melifer (langa o padure de salcam, langa o padure de tei deci nu vreau de la ele sa scoata miere de salcam sau tei acolo unde nu este
ca as fi absurd), rame cu foi pentru productia de ceara pentru ca din cate am citit uneori ele ar roi si daca nu au cum sa mai construiasca faguri noi pentru
ca organismul albinelor tinere produce involuntar acei solzi de ceara. Tratamente facute la toti egal, aerisire buna, spatiu pentru ponta matcii
( incerc pe cat claditposibil sa nu las cuibul blocat si imi dau silinta sa scot o rama de puie si sa pun o rama noua inainte de fiecare cules.
Mai mult decat atat inainte de salcam incerc sa aduc toti stupii la acelasi nivel de dezvolatere. 4 rame cu puiet la fiecare familie doar unele le las pe 5 rame
care le-am notate in caietul stupinei ca familii care nu au roit in anii precedenti. Sunt contient ca daca o familie are 7 rame de puiet inainte de cules exsita sanse mari sa roiasca ( cel putin asta se intampla la mine si nu cred ca numai la mine e valabil). Chiar si Dan Margarit mentiona intr-un filmulet ca la verificarea pe care acesta o face la inceput de sezon el taie din stupii prea puternici ca sa nu roiasca si ajuta alte familii.
Am citit pe forum de stupi cu multa musca pentru pastoral si la domnul Irinel si dumneavoastra domnule Radu ati precizat de cateva ori ca numai cu astfel de
familii se pleaca in pastoral. Eu le iau pe toate in pastoral si numai jumatate ba uneori si mai putin de jumatate dau productie si m-am saturat.
Am discutat cu unchiul meu si am ajuns la o concluzie in legatura cu matcile pe cale le avem. Toate matcile sunt facute din botci de roire, cele cumparate si cele pe care le-am facut pentru noi roiuri.
Materialul genetic este de proasta calitate pt ca cel de la care am cumparat nu punea accent pe productia de miere ci pe vanzare de roiuri.
Datorita acestui fapt am ajuns sa achizitionez de la dumneavoastra matci in speranta ca voi imbunatati materialul genetic din stupina. Am reusit anul trecut sa transfazez si intr-o oarecare masura am obtinut rezultate dar nu sunt notabile.
Dupa ce v-am prezentat cele de mai sus pentru ca altfel nu as fi putut sa va pun intrebarile de mai jos domniilor voastre si tuturor apicultorilor cu experienta
as dori sa stiu daca:

1. Concluzia la care am ajuns este una buna sau fac ceva gresit si datorita acestui lucru ma confrunt cu problemele de mai sus.

2. Ati mentionat stupi puternici buni pentru pastoral ce inseamna stupi buni? Cate rame de puiet? Cat de populati sunt stupi? (Am vazut cat de populati sunt stupi la domnul Dan Margarit cand deschidea capacul dar la mine is pleacati de mult daca ajung sa fie asa de puternici :lol: )

Stiu ca intrebarile de mai sus pot parea simple poate chiar prea simple dar as dori sa stiu daca gresesc undeva si daca o fac unde?

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Radu Guțescu
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Re: Matca

Mesajde Radu Guțescu » 05 Mar 2015, 05:50

Tot ceea ce ati făcut pentru evitarea roirii este corect, numai ca atat timp cat exista o predispoziție genetică la roire, este greu de lucrat cu familii mari. Deci schimbarea matcilor este cu siguranta o decizie corecta. Legat de a doua întrebare, familiile cu care plecam la cules au minim 12-13 rame Dadant 1/1 de puiet si 20 de rame de aceeasi dimensiune de albina.
“Exista ceva la albine care intotdeauna l-a captivat pe om. Extraordinarul lor simt al ordinii si al preciziei, abilitatea lor de a se adapta la orice sau oriunde, versatilitatea incredibila, acestea si multe alte caracteristici reprezinta o inepuizabila sursa de interes si incantare atat pentru apicultorul profesionist cu cei 2000 de stupi ai sai, dar si pentru cel amator cu cei cativa stupi ai sai din coltul gradinii“. - Karl Kehrle (Fratele Adam)

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Re: Matca

Mesajde Calin » 05 Mar 2015, 14:29


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Re: Matca

Mesajde Radu Guțescu » 05 Mar 2015, 14:41

La 12-13 rame este nivelul normal de dezvoltare, nu este nevoie de unificări. Intre stupii care merg in pastoral avem si familii care au doua corpuri separate cu Hanneman si in fiecare corp se afla cate o matca. Cu o săptămână înainte de cules luam matca din corpul de sus si mutăm gratia pe al doilea corp. Aceste familii au 18-19 rame de puiet, de aceea am spus minim 12-13 rame.
“Exista ceva la albine care intotdeauna l-a captivat pe om. Extraordinarul lor simt al ordinii si al preciziei, abilitatea lor de a se adapta la orice sau oriunde, versatilitatea incredibila, acestea si multe alte caracteristici reprezinta o inepuizabila sursa de interes si incantare atat pentru apicultorul profesionist cu cei 2000 de stupi ai sai, dar si pentru cel amator cu cei cativa stupi ai sai din coltul gradinii“. - Karl Kehrle (Fratele Adam)

Calin
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Re: Matca

Mesajde Calin » 05 Mar 2015, 18:23


Calin
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Re: Matca

Mesajde Calin » 05 Mar 2015, 18:28

La cel de-al doilea corp se face urdinis separat sau cel de jos ramane singurul ?


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